David sent me this link: How much do top tech companies pay?
This prompted a discussion about the costs of living in Northern Ireland compared to Cupertino and the realisation that there’s a normalisation needing done. But despite it not being linear, I still reckon that Northern Ireland gets a raw deal here.
Average income in Cupertino is $123,320 (US average is $76,893)
Average income in Northern Ireland £17,366
Average house price in Cupertino $880,000 (US Average is $259,566)
Average house price in Northern Ireland £156,857
Average house price divided by average salary in Cupertino: 7.13 (US Ave 3.37)
Average house price divided by average salary in Northern Ireland: 9.03
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Income Tax rate in Cupertino: 9.3% (highest bracket)
Income Tax rate in Northern Ireland: 20%
VAT/Sales tax in Cupertino: 8.25%
VAT/Sales tax in Northern Ireland: 17.5%
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Seems to me that we pay a higher percentage of income on housing as well. Considerably larger – Cupertino just normalises the US average to be almost as bad as Northern Ireland.
Now, adding in utilities (I spent a shitload more on heating and lighting here I bet). Can’t comment on TV/Cable but I spend about $100 a month here on Satellite TV (that I don’t even watch). Everything I buy (and have bought) in and from the USA) seemed cheaper.
Northern Ireland has salaries 20% below the UK average and a standard of living around 20% below the UK average. I reckon that Northern Ireland people live in relative squalor and we just get on with it. And we get on with it because there’s no choice.
Northern Ireland’s culture has been artificially frozen since the 1960s. We haven’t progressed significantly in any way. We have a local government whose level of corruption seems to be the envy of politicians worldwide. We have two microcultures that still, after everything we’ve been through, mistrust and want to hurt the other.
You should try living in the US sometime. Just saying. The standard of living over here in NI is.. disappointing.. compared to many places in the US.
Clearly I’m getting older and thus right-wing and grumpy, but more and more I think people get the society they deserve.
Maybe its time to up sticks and leave.
On a related note, those come to California adverts with Arnie that are always on the TV. Do they want people to come there for a holiday or to work?
Hi Stephen,
I think the encouragment is for US companies to come over here and offer kick-ass salaries for our top class talent.
“I reckon that Northern Ireland people live in relative squalor and we just get on with it. And we get on with it because there’s no choice.”
It’s a wonder how parents manage. Mine certainly taught us how to make the most of everything, which fooled many outwardly; but the word ‘subsistence’ isn’t far away. It was always ‘making do’ and ‘getting on with it’, there was rarely talk of opportunity.
People almost cottoned on to the possibility of getting their ass in gear when things were good there a few years ago, but it was buoyed by the disillusionment of credit and promptly withered when that dried up. To use a strange metaphor, we didn’t know what a carrot was so had to taste it first before we could strive for the one on the end of the stick…but that one was withdrawn, and we’re back to being a donkey.
I wish I had the mindset I have now when I left school 10 years ago, but it took 10 years of following the usual dead ends and eventually meeting the right people to make initiative seem plausible. I’ve thought about moving away, but apart from lacking anything desired by better places, part of me would rather we made this country better than for all the triers to leave. Saying that, I’m glad I have no dependents or committments right now…
While I completely agree that NI living costs are through the roof and the general quality of life is poor, don’t forget that California is essentially bankrupt. Someone is going to have to pay for it sooner or later. I guess the hope is that with the recovery, taxes will start flowing into the coffers again.
Saying that, I would choose a bankrupt CA everyday of the week 😉
I lived in CA (family still lives there) and now work in Seattle/Redmond, WA. I’ve been to NI (and thought it beautiful).
I will have to agree though, the price of everything in the UK (it seems) is very expensive. I’m told milk, bread and butter are cheaper than in the US, but I prefer a very mixed and balanced diet. I think almost everyone does.
I’ve always wanted to live in the UK or Ireland (I think quite a few Americans like myself have an idealized view of that part of the world) but after visiting and knowing/reading more information – from people who came from there/live there, the news – I don’t know that I would want to move there given the cost of living and the salary for top tech jobs.
In comparing Cupertino with Redmond/Seattle, I’m not sure what the average salary here is, but let’s just say it’s $100-$110K. Housing here costs less than the $800K average than Cupertino, and as far as I know we aren’t bankrupt. It’s a good place to live and work once a Southern CA person gets used to all the damned trees, fresh air, and cleanliness :). Still, I love CA and love visiting.
I like NI too and will happily visit as many times as I can. I just don’t think I can afford to live there and maintain the same standard of living as I have now. 🙁 Hope the situation improves…
There are various parts of those numbers that don’t add up or make sense, but I think that’s indicative our current credit problems, the average salary can’t afford the average house based on standard mortgage multipliers.
Is there anyway to find out the average NI salary for a slightly more concentrated employment area? (say Greater Belfast, or those employed in Greater Belfast, the average NI salary is bound to include a lot of agri salaries, not sure that Cupertino would include such numbers)
Don’t get me wrong, the point is valid, we pay higher taxes, get paid less and get much less sunshine! (and we have the usual dour NI attitude to anything risky or different, taking many of us the 10 years to realise we should have just gone for it out of school or Uni).
Having lived in places all over the world, the salary/cost ratio in N. Ireland is really bad. I’ve lived in Belfast, London, Sydney, Melbourne, Boston, San Francisco and now Saskatoon, Canada. The only place that is similar to Belfast is Saskatoon, which has had the same kind of housing boom and is waiting for salaries to catch up (which probably won’t happen for 10-20 years).
If you are mobile and work in tech, the US is definitely the place to be, in terms of how much disposable income you will have and what that income will buy you. Bar none.