Russell writes about the thorny issue of abortion.
My bone of contention comes from the fact that the Parliment on England are trying to force this ammendment onto us, when all 4 churches and pretty much the whole Northern Ireland executive have said leave as is.
There’s are two logical fallacies here, however:
- that any Church should have anything to do with the running of a civil government.
- that the politicians in Northern Ireland have the best interests of humans at heart
I’m strongly Pro-Choice in this matter. It’s not something I choose for myself but until I’m able to carry a foetus to term myself, I’m not going to dictate how others choose to deal with unwanted pregnancies. I’d ask any man who has an opinion to consider not trimming any of his beard, toenails, hair, fingernails (or for that matter, ejaculate) for around 18 years before he considers the effects of bringing a child into the world. And even that won’t scratch the surface.
He continues:
My question is that, If we have (and its taken a long time to get) our own Northern Ireland executive with representives seated in the main UK Parliment, then why are the English trying to get invloved in our business? and force an ammendment our govenernment do not want?
This isn’t an English/Northern Irish thing. This is the government knowing that if we were left to our own devices our politicians would have us burning books and witches by the tonne. It has been shown time and time again that the political and social development of Northern Ireland is infantile in the extreme, that we permit dangerous memes of ‘difference’ and ‘culture’ which are divisive in our own communities: in short that we cannot be trusted to look after ourselves.
Don’t kid yourself; we don’t have a government. We have a couple of prefects looking after us and the teachers are hanging back to see what level of disaster we can make out of it.
I don’t want to live in a country that prides itself on bigotry and sectarianism but I’ve made my bed here and I’m kinda stuck. Northern Ireland has incredible potential because we have a lot of very smart people (I guess that proves that intelligence is recessive) but very few of the smart, educated people actually vote (and when they do, they don’t vote for big name parties).
The amendment is being forced because the people of Northern Ireland think with their bibles and not with their heads. And politicians pander to this weakness.
If we are not to be trusted to be left run our own country, fine, then lets go back to being ran from London. Why have this so-called devolved government if they are not allowed to make their own decisions, was really my point. Not wanting to get into a debate about abortion as its e relevant about the point I was ‘trying’ to make
On the other point of Church’s I totally agree that they should not get involved with politics, look at the mess Iris Robinson has caused, Would Gordon Browns wife have been let away with these comments, I think not!
Or the fact that George Bush’s answer to the aids fight in Africa is, Don’t sleep together before marriage – because thats what the bible says!
The fact that Iris Robinson has been marginalised in this debate just proves my point. She’s marginalised because people realise her views are bigoted and unrealistic. I mean she’s currently under investigation for Hate Crime.
A bit like when Mister Paisley was removed from the European Parliament (cf Wikipedia)
Our leaders have made us the laughing stock of Europe. I’m not even going to wonder why Mister Paisley chose that colour scheme.
Don’t even bring Bush into the argument. I don’t think we should be proud that it’s easy to equate the leadership of Northern Ireland to ‘Dubya’.
These are the people we choose to lead us.
I’e just commented over on Russel’s blog but I don’t think the problem is voting with Bibles instead of heads, nor do find the church squarely to blame. I think its very easy to confuse two types of people, actual Christian believers and the loyalists/republicans who neither know or have a veiled interest in the Bible, but are happy to pick one side and hate the other. We see this everyday in the Western world’s attitude to Islam and terrorism. Its very easy for all sides to point blame and what we are starting to see now, although not to the same extent, is no longer Catholic v Protestant, but Atheism/Indifference v Religion.
I think it’s about time we all stopped believing in fairytales.
the debate appears to rage on!
my final word on the matter is that, we all have options BUT if I as a Scouter/Youth Worker have to be careful about what I say to the people I have in my care. Then politicians should have to do the same, We are all in their care!
Fairytales is a pretty harsh adjective.
I think its about time people stopped believing they evolved from monkeys, I mean that’s fairytale stuff right there. How do the monkeys change, kiss from a princess?
I don’t think there is an anti-God conspiracy, and I know the historical “church” has a lot to apologise for but but I do think atheists should perhaps treat others as they would want treated themselves.
Way off topic sorry MJ, I have an update on the actual issue of abortion coming later from a local feminist with a degree in politics with womens studies.
I’ve not had a religious debate in ages.
The difference, Andrew, being that evolution has evidence – evidence that is growing all the time whereas creationism has a post-dated book. That makes the Bible about as authoritative as “The Lord of the Rings” or “The Elves and the Showmaker”.
My third form RE teacher was very specific about it. Genesis is a story told to ignorant people in order to help them understand the creation of the world. It is not meant to be taken literally. Pretty progressive for a nun. Two thousand years later we have digital watches and facebook and we still have people climging to the fairytale?
I’m all for you having your own beliefs, Andrew, the problem is when they get shoved down others throats or, as in the case of Iris Robinson, there is an elected representative of the people spouting hate propaganda. Jesus, whether or not he actually existed, would be proud.
It’s only in recent years that Atheists have been standing up and not allowing themselves to be marginalised and the response from the right wing Church has been pretty damning – with claims of religious people being victimised. Seems the pot does indeed call the kettle black.
Are there many wars that were started by Atheists?
Great. Another biased view. I’m not interested in the feminist viewpoint any more than I’m interested in any self-promotion group. I’m interested in equality and choice for humans nomatter their sex, colour, creed or position in life.
What about the growing evidence against evolution coming from non-christian scientists. What if for two thousand or more years people haven’t been ignorant and that why we still have the book? What if your RE teacher was disillusioned from working inside the religious equivalent of the civil service and never getting laid? No one can decide for everyone on a matter that is anything but black or white and as for wanting equality and choice for all, it seems you have no time for anyone with a strong personal conviction, be it religion or feminism. Re: pot & kettle
The cause of a war is of more relevance to who started (Dubya excluded) in no order WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Korea, Falklands, French Revolution etc Land and power are why wars are fought, even the crusades were due to the greed of corrupt officials
Cite your sources. My first degree was Genetics with a heavy amount of evolutionary/population genetics (my Honors)! I’ve yet to hear of any scientist who has a problem with the process of Evolution by Natural Selection so I’m genuinely interested in hearing about them.
Aha, but the book itself hasn’t been around for two thousand years but pieced together and then they sat in a council and decided which bits fit with ‘doctrine’.
I have no problems with personal convictions – as long as they are personal. You can’t expect me to listen to rhetoric from someone who you describe as a feminist any more than I should pay attention to anyone who favours a subgroup over another – racist, sectarian, sexist, feminist, male chauvenist. Any thinking human must consider the agenda of any speaker and rate it accordingly.